Podcast — 36 Minutes

Episode 9: Star Wars Sucks

Podcast — 36 Minutes

Episode 9: Star Wars Sucks

Disney, are you listening?

How have things gone so terribly wrong with the Star Wars franchise? Magnus, Jennifer Engel, and Avery Wojdyla join Dr. Gwynette to count the ways.

Music by @MrBobbyKalman

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Dr. Gwynette: Hello and welcome to the Autism News NetWORK podcast. My name is Dr. Frampton Gwynette and I work at the Medical University of South Carolina. You can follow me on Twitter @drgwynette. That’s D-R-G-W-Y-N-E-T-T-E You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram. I’m joined today in the studio live by C Magnus.

Magnus: Hey, this is Magnus.

Dr. Gwynette: Magnus, as well as Jennifer.

Jennifer: Hello, I’m Jennifer.

Dr. Gwynette: Hi Jennifer. Thanks for being here. And a repeat guest, Avery.

Avery: All right, I’m here I guess.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So I wanted to have a question for you, Magnus. There are four people in the studio right now, two of them have had zero sleep last night. Do you want to guess who they are?

Magnus: Oh, just by looking at their eyes, you can already tell.

Dr. Gwynette: Who? For our audience.

Magnus: Oh, that’s Jennifer and Avery.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay. Yeah. And is that accurate, guys?

Avery: Yes. I literally had no sleep.

Jennifer: Two or three hours.

Dr. Gwynette: Two or three hours. And Jennifer you just mentioned that in preparation for this podcast, you were watching hours of what?

Jennifer: Reviews of the movies we’re going to be talking about today.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, so we’re going to be talking about a special topic today. This may be a rant, it may be a vent-

Magnus: And it’s also probably going to be full of spoilers.

Dr. Gwynette: Full of spoilers too. We are going to talk about Star Wars and why Star Wars sucks now. So I have three experts here in the room and we are off and running. The Death Star I believe has an exhaust port to let off steam, right? And that’s what we’re going to be doing today too, to talk about the saga and the series. So does anybody want to start off talking about how Star Wars sucks?

Jennifer: I don’t want to say sucks, just isn’t as great as it used to be.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay.

Avery: I’ll just say I came in-

Jennifer: It has a good point… I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. It has good parts and points, but it’s just a lot of it was just wasted potential. That’s what I think.

Dr. Gwynette: How so? It’.

Jennifer: They set up characters to do certain things and then they just completely forgot about it. It was like, “What?”

Avery: You mean Finn?

Jennifer: Finn was wasted. It was insane.

Magnus: He should have been a Storm Trooper Jedi. That would have been one of the coolest things to watch. And they just threw his character away.

Dr. Gwynette: Like a double agent?

Magnus: No, just a Storm Trooper that became a Jedi.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay, so he’s not going both ways [crosstalk 00:02:18].

Magnus: He started off as a Storm Trooper, and then he goes to being a Jedi. But nope-

Dr. Gwynette: That was-

Magnus: It was implied and the Rise of Skywalker, but they did so much editing in that movie. They cut out that part, they just cut out so much. The Rise of Skywalker felt like two movies into one just crammed. And it’s not really JJ Abrams fault because this goes back to The Last Jedi by Ryan Johnson.

Jennifer: Oh boy. You brought him into a corner, I’m not even going to lie.

Dr. Gwynette: Let’s talk about Last Jedi, because it’s very controversial, isn’t it?

Magnus: You either hate it or you liked it. I remember watching it with my friends and I was confused. I was like, “Did I just watch a move I don’t like?”. They’re all excited, but I’m a hardcore Star Wars fan. They’re normal, casual moviegoers. And I was like, “What did I just watch?” I walked out of the movie theater, I was so confused. I was like, “I have to go watch this again because I think Star Wars has just turned to something bad, terrible.”

Dr. Gwynette: Like a [inaudible 00:03:15].

Magnus: It just jumped completely different.

Jennifer: They use the subvert your expectations a bit too far. It’s like, yeah, it’s nice to be surprised, but you shouldn’t go out of character with characters.

Magnus: I was going to say, yeah, I agree with that. A major turning point for me was the political stuff that was forced in the Star Wars movie. I don’t watch Star Wars to get all this political stuff. I watch Star Wars to get away. Seriously. I get away from everything, you go in a galaxy far, far away.

Avery: Well in its defense, a lot of political stuff is a part of the world building. It is necessary to explain the other parts of the plot. It’s just… I’m holding in a bunch of rage, but [crosstalk 00:04:10]

Magnus: I felt like Kathleen Kennedy was just pushing her agenda with this force is female.

Avery: With this particular movie.

Magnus: That’s what I mean by that. I like Politics in the original and the prequels. There’s so much politics in the prequels. You see the Senator Palpatine just use his power, manipulate people without using anything. The only time he kills anyone is in self defense. You watch the prequels, anytime he kills someone, it’s in self defense.

Dr. Gwynette: You guys are going to laugh. For our listeners, I had to look up… So the emperor…

Jennifer: Yeah, Palpatine.

Dr. Gwynette: Palpatine. I didn’t realize that. I knew they looked alike, but why did they change his name to Palpatine from the emperor?

Jennifer: His name was always Palpatine.

Magnus: His name is Palpatine and he just went to the emperor at the end of Revenge of the Sith.

Avery: Emperor Palpatine.

Jennifer: That’s his big title.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay, gotcha. Because I figured they were the same guy, but they’re different names.

Jennifer: It makes no sense. Speaking of Palpatine, it makes absolutely no sense how he came back.

Magnus: This is the thing that pissed me off because I’m a huge Vader fan, and I think they as a retribution? No…

Dr. Gwynette: Get what’s coming to you?

Magnus: No, redemption, sorry. His redemption story’s just thrown in the trash. The way he threw Palpatine off and he just got vaporized. Is Palpatine was a clone? Did he not die?

Jennifer: It’s just like, “Oh.”

Magnus: It’s just like, okay. So Vader’s whole story, a Greek tragedy thrown away. It means nothing.

Dr. Gwynette: And what movie was that?

Magnus: This is Return of the Jedi.

Jennifer: The original trilogy.

Magnus: Yeah, the original trilogy, I’m sorry.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, exactly. I thought the emperor was dead at that point, but he wasn’t.

Magnus: No, he-

Jennifer: The Death Star blew up not once, but twice. It’s like, how?

Magnus: This is a thing that… Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Avery.

Avery: Well, technically they were, it explained in the… if you remember the title sequence of the original trilogy, I think it’s says that they built another Death Star. It’s like a backup, but they weren’t necessarily complete with it. So that’s technically not the same Death Star, but basically the same Deaths Star.

Jennifer: It’s probably because they were defeated and they were too weak to really do anything.

Avery: Oh wait. Anyways. Let me think. Sorry, this movie just makes me so mad that it… It’s like trying to… it’s like an awful bit of indigestion right here.

Magnus: Yeah. There’s a whole fan base like that. They’re like, that’s a Disney trilogy, that doesn’t count.

Avery: I felt like that through a lot of it, the entire trilogy. I’m having a hard time even expressing it.

Dr. Gwynette: So this is episodes eight and nine you’re talking about?

Jennifer: Force Awakens was all right.

Dr. Gwynette: The Force Awakens got me hyped for Star Wars again, I saw that 10, 12 times. I was so excited, there was so much potential in that movie. And then the star of The Last Jedi is Luke throwing the Light Saber off the cliff.

Jennifer: That just made me like, what?

Magnus: What was the point of The Force Awakens? And then you get some Luke Skywalker, [inaudible 00:07:52] it’s like, what? He’s like an island drinking a green milk from an alien? It’s just like, what’s happening to him? What happened to the hero at The Return of the Jedi? What happened to my idol? It’s just like, what did they turn him into?

Jennifer: All that character development just went right back down to zero again.

Avery: It’s made in a point where probably struggled for a long time after the effect just because they-

Magnus: PTSD?

Avery: Because they assumed he was just this magical heroic person.

Magnus: I think Ryan Johnson just wanted to get rid of old characters to tell you the truth. In with the new, out with the old as quick as possible.

Avery: That’s always a part of…

Magnus: Another thing that made me mad in The Last Jedi was like, really? Did Luke really OD on The Force? And it’s just like in the Rise of Skywalker, I get that the actor of Princess Leia died in real life. The way that she dies is the same way Luke dies. She ODs on The Force. I can’t put it any more simpler than that. I can’t.

Jennifer: I don’t understand why Luke died. It was just-

Magnus: He OD’d on The Force. It’s like, what did I just watch?

Jennifer: It was like, wait. He didn’t die. It was like, okay. So they had the fight with like Kylo Ren, right? So they’re like, oh, he used it there, so he’s not going to die. And then you see him on this rock, oh, he dies anyway. So I’m just like, wait, what?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. It’s confusing.

Magnus: The only thing I like about The Last Jedi is the throne room scene. I like that fight scene. That’s probably the best fight scene in the whole trilogy, the throne room scene.

Dr. Gwynette: Is that the one the lightsabers [inaudible 00:00:09:34]?

Magnus: Yeah. It just comes out [inaudible 00:09:36] with the red guards and stuff. That was really cool.

Dr. Gwynette: How much do you guys think Disney is influencing all this?

Magnus: They own it.

Dr. Gwynette: I mean are they poisoning the saga?

Jennifer: I don’t know about poisoning, I just feel like they didn’t plan it out. It seems obvious.

Avery: They were using the hype of getting people excited about Star Wars, but they didn’t-

Magnus: And the thing about it is George [crosstalk 00:10:05] Oh sorry.

Avery: Then they didn’t follow through. That’s the thing. Throughout the entire thing because of both the switching of directors, the not remembering certain plot points, just removed us from the world I think. Because a lot of us do it just so we can experience the world. It’s not always about the characters, but we do enjoy a character or two. But I personally just have this feeling of… Sorry, I’m climbing up again.

Dr. Gwynette: No, don’t worry. Don’t worry about it. Let it out.

Jennifer: Let it out.

Avery: Yeah, but the thing is…

Magnus: Disney’s paying for it.

Dr. Gwynette: So you feel like they chose the wrong director or they had wrong writing?

Magnus: They chose money over the fan base.

Jennifer: I don’t think it was wrong directors. It was obvious that they did not plan this out. If they had actually made a roadmap and planned it out and stayed with the same director. Switching everything around, because you’re going to have two conflicting visions clashing against each other. So that’s not going to help.

Avery: But that’s not solely because of it. It’s because of… Wait, I’m trying to remember. How many times did they switch director?

Magnus: Colin [inaudible 00:11:36]? I think his name was supposed to direct the Rise of Skywalker, which was supposed to be called [inaudible 00:11:40], which is actually a way cooler name. The script got leaked online.

Dr. Gwynette: On, on that note, sorry. [inaudible 00:11:51] of how Palpatine finally bit it.

Magnus: Oh my gosh. Oh no.

Avery: What garbage is this?

Magnus: I agree with that.

Avery: Oh geez, it’s not that it wasn’t a good idea, there was a thought behind it, but to die in that particular way-

Magnus: Just crossing the lightsabers and saying, “I am all the Jedi.” And he die. That’s it.

Avery: Here’s the thing, I would expect like some sort of… Oh man, sorry. I had this entirely how that could have been written better in my head.

Magnus: Oh yeah. They did a lot of editing on that scene as well.

Avery: Yeah. I could have come up with at least several different other things that could have used the similar plot points just to make that better. That is all I can think about now. Oh no, that’s bad.

Dr. Gwynette: Well, it’s almost a similar feeling to… you guys were probably not even born when the last Seinfeld episode came out. You heard about the backlash on that where it was like you had this amazing series and the last episode was just absolutely brutal and the public couldn’t stand it. And then the other thing-

Jennifer: It reminds me of how Game of Thrones ended.

Magnus: I liked how that ended.

Jennifer: Everybody loved it.

Magnus: I liked it because it was unexpected. That’s what I liked about Game of Thrones

Avery: I didn’t enjoy it. It removed from the… no.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah it was very similar for me watching that last episode of Game of Thrones, I was just like, that was one of the worst hours of television period I’ve ever watched. It was just brutal. You could’ve just sent me an email and said this is how it ends up.

Magnus: I can definitely-

Avery: We’re getting sidetracked on another note.

Magnus: [inaudible 00:13:51]

Avery: The basic concept of how we feel like we’re pumping out movies but we’re not considering the quality. We’re really not considering the quality when we’re pumping out things. No, we’re not particularly that great yet. But it’d be nice to… it’s always a good thing to try to improve. Either that or do it to the point where it has a certain quality standard.

Magnus: They need to bring George Lucas back. That’s the only way. It’s the only way.

Dr. Gwynette: I think so.

Magnus: They need to bring George Lucas, John Fabro, the guy who makes [inaudible 00:14:36] the Mandalorian and Dave Filoni who works on Star Wars Clone Wars that know the Star Wars lore. You need to get rid of Kathleen Kennedy and put someone who knows the Star Wars Clone and knows the fans.

Avery: Treat the saga with respect.

Magnus: And then the thing he was talking about how Palpatine died, that scene was completely rewritten. They had Liam Neeson, they had Samuel L Jackson. They were supposed to come out as Force ghosts. There was supposed to be this huge battle. Hayden Christensen was supposed to be back. How are they not going to put Hayden Christensen with the Darth Vader… Not one cameo. I was waiting from the day one of The Force Awakens to see Hayden Christsensen. No, they edited it, they cut out a lot of stuff because they tried to appease the Chinese market and the Chinese are not really into Star Wars. So they did a lot of cutting and editing to appease the market, which failed. And this is why the backlash is coming, this is what happens when you turn the fans. This was supposed to be the finale of a series, a movie that started in 1977 and we get this junk.

Avery: It’s really disappointing.

Magnus: What happened?

Dr. Gwynette: Jennifer, you were going to say something.

Jennifer: Yeah, I forgot what I was going to say.

Dr. Gwynette: Not a problem. Going forward, would we expect another saga film?

Magnus: I was actually reading up on that. They’re going to take a little bit of time. Because even though The Rise of Skywalker made a billion that’s very low for a finale of a series. They were expecting way more. It should have been way more. I walked into that movie underwhelmed. I was like, man, this is not going to be any worse than The Last Jedi. I just walked out, I was like, I’m just glad it’s over. I’m just waiting for the next series or movie to come out. But I’m just not that… I’ll be honest, I was a big fan, die hard fan. But just after the Disney trilogy just killed me inside a little bit.

Avery: I came in to the theater with expectations extraordinarily low, to the point of we’re scooping the bottom of the barrel here low, and then it screwed that up.

Magnus: And it’s just bad because Disney literally has a cash cow. Star Wars is a cash cow. The only way I can see it coming back, they need to bring George Lucas. And I could see George Lucas in his bed smirking somewhere, “You miss me now?” Because all the hate you receive for the prequels. I go back to their prequels and I appreciate Revenge of the Sith. That’s probably one of the top ones for me. Definitely Revenge of the Sith.

Avery: That’s episode three?

Magnus: Yeah.

Jennifer: Yeah, that was the whole reason why George Lucas even sold Star Wars, is because of all the hate he got. He was just like, I’m done.

Magnus: All the people who hated him, they’re like, please George Lucas come back, please come back.

Avery: Restore order.

Magnus: Please come back.

Jennifer: George Lucas had a script.

Magnus: Yeah, he had scripts.

Jennifer: [crosstalk 00:17:46] And Disney was just like, nope.

Magnus: Threw it away, I read about that.

Avery: Are you kidding me?

Magnus: Bob Eager threw it away, it’s in his book.

Jennifer: They were like, “Oh, we’re going to do our own thing.” And it’s just like, “Are you for real?”

Avery: That’s terrible.

Jennifer: You’re going to disrespect the creator like that?

Dr. Gwynette: I guess that’s what happens. When you sell something you lose control. So Jennifer, you mentioned that he sold it because of the fan backlash on episodes one, two and three?

Jennifer: Yeah, the prequels. People hated it. I don’t get that amount of hate. I can get some points.

Magnus: You say episode one is horrible, but I watched it in 1999 and that got me into Star Wars. I would have never been into Star Wars had I not seen episode one. I knew he receives a lot of backlash because Jar Jar Binks. But seeing Darth, what’s his name?

Jennifer: Darth [inaudible 00:18:35]?

Magnus: Yeah, Darth [inaudible 00:18:36]. That was like… the song at the end with Obi-Wan and [inaudible 00:18:42]. It’s just like, this is what I like about This Star Wars, how they fight-

Avery: I’ve only seen it once. And that’s the thing that’s weird is I’ve seen Star Wars probably 200 times. I’ve probably seen Empire Strikes Back about 30 times.

Magnus: [crosstalk 00:18:57].

Avery: And I’ve seen Return of the Jedi probably about 10 or 12 times, and certainly it’s my age, but also too, episode one Phantom Menace. I was just like, “Oh goodness, that’s terrible.” And then after that it became-

Magnus: You basically felt how I feel for this-

Avery: It felt like an obligation. Now I’ve got to see episode two and three. And then when you see them you’re like, okay, I saw them, and you’re like, this is significant. I think that we feel much more [crosstalk 00:19:25].

Magnus: I don’t think this saga is going to age too well like the prequel did. People go back, they’re like, the prequels weren’t that bad, I had a storyline, I was wrong George Lucas, maybe the dialogue was a bit boring, but that’s how Hayden… That’s how Darth Vader was supposed to be, Hayden Christian. I can’t see anyone else playing Darth Vader. I cannot see any other actor playing him. Hayden Christian is Anikin to me.

Jennifer: Did you hear the hate that that little 10 year old boy got?

Dr. Gwynette: Jake [crosstalk 00:19:55]?

Magnus: Yeah, he got into a speed racing accident over here a few years ago. It’s crazy.

Jennifer: And he nearly… Didn’t he… The Jar Jar Binks actor got huge depression.

Dr. Gwynette: The Jar Jar Bink actor got depression?

Jennifer: Yeah, All the backlash, all the hate.

Magnus: It’s like, I hate you Jar Jar. I don’t like the new… It’s just toxic fandom. Those same people that did that were like, I miss George Lucas. I don’t like this Disney trilogy. Give me back George Lucas now. Take my money.

Dr. Gwynette: Now, do you guys feel like episodes four, five and six are definitely in a class of their own?

Magnus: Yes, the original trilogy.

Jennifer: Oh yeah, the originals are… they’re good.

Avery: The originals we all love. The prequels, we had some heckling but we still-

Magnus: Go a whole new generation.

Jennifer: Develop the world a little bit more too.

Magnus: And this generation has to grow up with that, the Disney trilogy and then they go back to the other ones, they’re like, what? What did Disney do?

Dr. Gwynette: I think they really blew it. And I wonder sometimes as a huge conglomeration and corporation like Disney probably doesn’t care. Because they have their huge Star Wars world down in Orlando and-

Magnus: Apparently it’s actually doing really bad. They’re catering to the newer generation, they don’t have any of the older generation characters and those theme parks. Like I said, they’re trying to kill off the older characters and move onto a new generation of characters.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s wild.

Jennifer: I think they have a few.

Magnus: Very few. Very minimum.

Jennifer: They have [crosstalk 00:21:42] Darth Vader and stuff like that, but that’s… Storm Troopers.

Magnus: Very minimum.

Dr. Gwynette: No, exactly. So going forward, I guess the hope would be… and how old is George Lucas now? Is he getting pretty-

Magnus: I hope he can do another trilogy, please keep him alive for another trilogy.

Dr. Gwynette: And there’s talk of another trilogy?

Magnus: If they paid George Lucas to write them out.

Jennifer: Not [crosstalk 00:22:01] Skywalker, probably not.

Magnus: The Rise of Skywalker is… like I said, even though it made 1 billion, it was supposed to make a lot more.

Jennifer: God dang, he’s 75 years old.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So he’s getting up there.

Magnus: Yeah. And I’ll tell you, you’re never going to meet another Star Wars fan. They’re very hard to please, very hard.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Did you guys ever dress up for Halloween as a Star Wars character?

Jennifer: No.

Magnus: No, but-

Avery: I might’ve, I can’t remember.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, I was Darth Vader when I was three. I had a costume that was like a robe, and my mom sewed on some circles and squares and then I had the plastic mask and a lightsaber. Good to go. But you guys can’t remember any times that you dressed up in character?

Jennifer: I haven’t.

Avery: It was so long ago. I can’t even remember.

Dr. Gwynette: I was in Orlando at Hollywood Studios a couple of summers ago and it was pretty bone chilling and to see just 20 Storm Troopers lined up and marching [crosstalk 00:23:05] with Darth Vader out in front.

Magnus: I would love to go [crosstalk 00:23:09] but they need a lot more attractions there.

Dr. Gwynette: They need more juice- [crosstalk 00:00:23:14].

Magnus: They don’t understand the Star Wars fans, they will come, you just got to put the content in there.

Jennifer: In my opinion instead of just trying to appease the new one, appease both. Why not both?

Dr. Gwynette: Exactly.

Jennifer: It’s like you don’t have to have one or the other. you have so much money Disney. You could easily do both.

Magnus: A lot is riding on the Mandalorian. That’s what is keeping them afloat right now. The Star Wars fans, they really like the Mandalorian. It’s really good.

Jennifer: Rouge one was okay.

Magnus: I love Rogue One.

Avery: ZI haven’t seen that one.

Magnus: You haven’t seen it? You got to see Rogue One. I’m telling you, for me it’s got to be a Rogue One and then The Force Awakens and the rest of them count. I don’t want to talk about the other ones.

Avery: Rogue One is-

Magnus: Rogue One is very good.

Avery: It’s a story film?

Magnus: It’s a prequel to A New Hope, how they steal the Death Star plans.

Avery: Really?

Magnus: Yes.

Avery: So it is a saga film.

Magnus: 10 out of 10.

Jennifer: It’s like a little bit of a side film. But it expands more on how they beat the Death Star in the originals.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s awesome. So let’s go around each of you. We’re going to make a prescription for Disney of what they need to do to get Star Wars off life support. I’ll go first and give you guys some time to think. So I guess first is bring back George Lucas.

Jennifer: They aren’t going to do that.

Magnus: They have to, I don’t see any other way. There’s already talks of them… They got to get rid of Katherine Kennedy number one as well. Get rid of her.

Dr. Gwynette: Get rid of Kathleen Kennedy.

Magnus: Please, get rid of her.

Dr. Gwynette: Who is she?

Magnus: The person in charge of Star Wars.

Jennifer: She actually got an award apparently.

Magnus: For destroying Star Wars?

Jennifer: Pretty much. It’s like, Oh you have diversity in there. And I’m just like, so? So what?

Magnus: I want a story, I don’t care about the diversity. I want a good story line.

Jennifer: Diversity is nice and all, but you got to have a nice story to go along with it.

Magnus: This is what ruined it.

Dr. Gwynette: A lot of people are saying, oh, the Star Wars people don’t like a female lead. I don’t think that’s the case.

Magnus: Not true. Not true. False.

Dr. Gwynette: No, we love her.

Magnus: False.

Jennifer: Princess Leia, people freaking love her.

Magnus: Exactly, Princess Leia.

Dr. Gwynette: So I’ve heard, bring George Lucas back, get rid of Kathleen Kennedy, other… Jennifer, do you have any other prescriptions?

Jennifer: Show more respect to the originals instead of just trying to kill them off.

Magnus: Exactly. It’s the older Star Wars fans that kept it alive for so long and then you’re going to just spit in our face? What’s that about?

Jennifer: It’s like a slap in the face. It’s like, really? You’re going to treat the old characters?

Dr. Gwynette: Exactly, and then Avery your recommendations and let it fly. Don’t hold back.

Avery: Okay. I have everything. I’m going to say what pretty much anybody else would say like, you’ve got to get a cohesive storyline that is well written that has a balance of all the needs you’re trying to fulfill. On top of that, you need to cast appropriate actors for whichever role you need to them to play. They do it a lot. Yes they do, but they also need… This is the thing. It’s not the actor’s fault a lot of the time it’s where you’re going with the direction. You have to be very careful with the tone you set because any little thing you say [inaudible 00:26:52].

Jennifer: Reminds me of The Last Jedi how they tried to insert comedy into dead serious things [crosstalk 00:26:59].

Avery: Exactly, you need to pick a time for these things. And that was not the time.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, because Star Wars was the first… Episode four was very funny, but there were moments like, laugh it up fuzzball or [crosstalk 00:27:15].

Magnus: They do it right in the intro of The Last Jedi.

Dr. Gwynette: Or [inaudible 00:27:18] where he’s like…

Jennifer: This very tense moment in The Last Jedi where they’re being chased [crosstalk 00:27:22].

Magnus: And he does a your mother joke. What is this, kindergarten?

Jennifer: I’m just like, are you serious?

Magnus: I’ll tell you what [crosstalk 00:27:29] The Last Jedi exposed Rotten Tomatoes for being bought. It still says 92% are critics, and then fans 90 or something like that. It’s rigged. That site is 100% rigged.

Dr. Gwynette: Is that right? Oh, wow. I use IMDB usually because it’s got-

Magnus: It’s like the critics always score it high. If the critics score it high, it’s probably going to be bad. If they score it low it’s probably going to be decent.

Dr. Gwynette: So Jennifer, you said you read a lot of reviews or watched reviews. Where do you go?

Jennifer: YouTube. There was this one… I watched a lot of [inaudible 00:28:03] The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker reviews. Oh my goodness. Okay. Hold up. There’s this guy that has like… He has… I’m searching it up right now.

Magnus: What like Tim Casts?

Jennifer: No.

Dr. Gwynette: So there’s places you can go to watch reviews?

Jennifer: He has a-

Magnus: Jeremy Jones?

Jennifer: A three part critiquing of The Last Jedi. Each part is almost two hours because that’s how much is just wrong with it.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow. So it’s longer than the movie itself.

Magnus: It’s so much. Another thing Star Wars needs to do-

Jennifer: That’s how much is wrong with it.

Dr. Gwynette: Who posted that? What’s the guy’s name?

Jennifer: Mauler.

Dr. Gwynette: Mauler. Okay. And how many watches does it all have?

Magnus: There are so many reviews on The Last Jedi.

Jennifer: Oh my God, they have over a million views each.

Magnus: There’s so many vids like that too, multiple vids like that.

Avery: Please, just… You don’t even need this podcast for this. You can look this stuff up. There’s no point. This is no debate at this point.

Dr. Gwynette: I consider you guys experts though because we talk about it a lot off air.

Jennifer: This guy, he did two hours on The Rise of Skywalker without any…

Dr. Gwynette: With no script?

Magnus: What a very underwhelming finale to one of the most beloved movie series of all time.

Jennifer: No, [inaudible 00:29:30] I was just like, really?

Magnus: How many times did they try to kill each other and just going to kiss?

Jennifer: Exactly.

Magnus: And then-

Jennifer: It came out of no where.

Avery: There was no build up,

Magnus: There wasn’t.

Avery: There was no story build up.

Magnus: And you know when he got pushed off the ledge and he climbed out, I was like, oh, so this is the rise of Skywalker, when he’s climbing off the ledge. This is the rise of Skywalker.

Jennifer: [inaudible 00:29:57] kiss out of no where, I’m just like, excuse me, how many people has literally been killed?

Magnus: You literally have been trying to kill each other and you’re just going to go and kiss.

Jennifer: How many people has he killed?

Magnus: It’s like, really?

Jennifer: Billions, probably.

Avery: The thing is, if there was a point where they could have add an actual redemption arc, I love a good redemption arc. If you do it right, sure it was a very brief one, but it was a fairly okay one.

Magnus: You know what would have added to that? If he helped Ray kill Palps with the signature move with his lightsaber, where was that? Signature to the back, taking that lightsaber and just stabbing him through the back. It should have happened like that.

Jennifer: Didn’t Palpatine say that he wanted Ray to kill her and then he killed her and then it’s like, hold up. Is he coming back again? Or is he actually gone now?

Dr. Gwynette: That’s the thing. It’s almost like a soap opera where you’re like, you never know if the characters are truly gone.

Avery: Yeah. It’s, oh okay, now we’re getting to comic books.

Dr. Gwynette: So the state of the franchise, if you guys could describe the state of the franchise in one word and then we’ll wrap up in a minute.

Magnus: On life support right now.

Dr. Gwynette: Life support.

Magnus: Actually, it’s on life support. It has the Mandalorian and The Clone Wars, they’re okay. But for the movies, I don’t know.

Jennifer: So before all this, it was a healthy franchise. Very profitable or whatever. But now it’s just barely alive.

Dr. Gwynette: So life support. Barely alive. How about Avery? One word.

Avery: I have nothing to say.

Avery: Wow.

Jennifer: Yeah. I would say Mandalorian-

Magnus: They pissed off the fans they don’t want to piss off, the Star Wars ones. Unforgivable.

Avery: What I would end up saying is just no. I know that people will have their own opinions on whatever it is.

Jennifer: Yeah, people can like those. That’s fine. They can like them if they want.

Avery: They can, but I’m just particularly a fan of things that are world-building and properly-

Dr. Gwynette: George Lucas.

Avery: Things have to be a certain way. I’m very particular when it comes to certain things. I can tolerate a lot of stuff when it comes to the storyline. I will literally just even go watch something terrible just to nitpick at something. Little good bits. But it’s like, oh wow.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Like you said, just no. As we wrap up, would you guys say, and I don’t mean this in a joking way, but has the turn South of the franchise, has that impacted your wellbeing at all?

Jennifer: What do you mean?

Magnus: I’ll say yes. Yes because when I first saw [inaudible 00:33:04] in 1999, I like to watch a movie and get away. That’s what Star Wars was for me. This whole world frigging ninjas with lightsabers, swords. And then it just ruined it. It was a huge part. I love Star Wars and now I hate it. I don’t hate but I love it. But I hate the Disney trilogy.

Avery: Didn’t you mention that you were down for a month?

Magnus: Yeah. It’s just like what? What do they do? And it’s just like, what did I just watch?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Did either Avery or Jennifer, did you guys feel depressed or sad?

Jennifer: If I shut my brain off with the new trilogy, it’s good because of all the action. But if I turn my brain on, I’m just like, there’s a lot of problems with it.

Avery: I feel a revulsion, actually. It’s pretty deep disgust and an insult. It’s like the feeling you get when you hear a roach in the dark and then you turn on a flashlight and there it is. It runs away.

Dr. Gwynette: Just revulsion, yeah.

Avery: Like among the common household, not everybody feels that way about all insects. But I mean me in particular, I don’t like the way roaches sound. It’s the scraping noise that gets me, it’s less the texture. It’s… Oh man.

Dr. Gwynette: Just creepy. Revulsion, like you said.

Avery: No, it’s more so it’s like an auditory discomfort for me. I guess I just got climatized to it and exposed to negative feelings towards them. I don’t really hate roaches altogether. It’s just, nevermind. This is a really dumb [crosstalk 00:34:54] I’m going to ramble on.

Magnus: You’re saying Disney are roaches. I get it.

Dr. Gwynette: I think we’ve got four people who really love Star Wars and we’re all in the same room talking and we’ve given Disney a lot to think about because we’re all die hards and we think that there needs to be some major change going forward. If the series is going to go forward at all.

Magnus: Believe me, I want to go in my wallet and be like, Disney, take my money, but make a good movie. They don’t want to listen.

Jennifer: Earn my money.

Magnus: There’s literally people that are like, take my money but have a good Star Wars movie.

Dr. Gwynette: Well I wanted to thank you guys for coming on. Magnus, really appreciate you coming on the show. Jennifer, it was great to have you. Avery, awesome job as usual and you’ve been listening to the Autism News NetWORK podcast on Star Wars and why Star Wars is not as great as it used to be. We are at the Medical University of South Carolina. You can check out our website, theautismnewsnetwork.com we have lots of cool videos on there about first person accounts as well as expert interviews, and you can follow me at drgwynette on Twitter and Instagram. We thank you for joining us and we’ll see you next time.

Dr. Gwynette: Hello and welcome to the Autism News NetWORK podcast. My name is Dr. Frampton Gwynette and I work at the Medical University of South Carolina. You can follow me on Twitter @drgwynette. That’s D-R-G-W-Y-N-E-T-T-E You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram. I’m joined today in the studio live by C Magnus.

Magnus: Hey, this is Magnus.

Dr. Gwynette: Magnus, as well as Jennifer.

Jennifer: Hello, I’m Jennifer.

Dr. Gwynette: Hi Jennifer. Thanks for being here. And a repeat guest, Avery.

Avery: All right, I’m here I guess.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So I wanted to have a question for you, Magnus. There are four people in the studio right now, two of them have had zero sleep last night. Do you want to guess who they are?

Magnus: Oh, just by looking at their eyes, you can already tell.

Dr. Gwynette: Who? For our audience.

Magnus: Oh, that’s Jennifer and Avery.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay. Yeah. And is that accurate, guys?

Avery: Yes. I literally had no sleep.

Jennifer: Two or three hours.

Dr. Gwynette: Two or three hours. And Jennifer you just mentioned that in preparation for this podcast, you were watching hours of what?

Jennifer: Reviews of the movies we’re going to be talking about today.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, so we’re going to be talking about a special topic today. This may be a rant, it may be a vent-

Magnus: And it’s also probably going to be full of spoilers.

Dr. Gwynette: Full of spoilers too. We are going to talk about Star Wars and why Star Wars sucks now. So I have three experts here in the room and we are off and running. The Death Star I believe has an exhaust port to let off steam, right? And that’s what we’re going to be doing today too, to talk about the saga and the series. So does anybody want to start off talking about how Star Wars sucks?

Jennifer: I don’t want to say sucks, just isn’t as great as it used to be.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay.

Avery: I’ll just say I came in-

Jennifer: It has a good point… I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. It has good parts and points, but it’s just a lot of it was just wasted potential. That’s what I think.

Dr. Gwynette: How so? It’.

Jennifer: They set up characters to do certain things and then they just completely forgot about it. It was like, “What?”

Avery: You mean Finn?

Jennifer: Finn was wasted. It was insane.

Magnus: He should have been a Storm Trooper Jedi. That would have been one of the coolest things to watch. And they just threw his character away.

Dr. Gwynette: Like a double agent?

Magnus: No, just a Storm Trooper that became a Jedi.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay, so he’s not going both ways [crosstalk 00:02:18].

Magnus: He started off as a Storm Trooper, and then he goes to being a Jedi. But nope-

Dr. Gwynette: That was-

Magnus: It was implied and the Rise of Skywalker, but they did so much editing in that movie. They cut out that part, they just cut out so much. The Rise of Skywalker felt like two movies into one just crammed. And it’s not really JJ Abrams fault because this goes back to The Last Jedi by Ryan Johnson.

Jennifer: Oh boy. You brought him into a corner, I’m not even going to lie.

Dr. Gwynette: Let’s talk about Last Jedi, because it’s very controversial, isn’t it?

Magnus: You either hate it or you liked it. I remember watching it with my friends and I was confused. I was like, “Did I just watch a move I don’t like?”. They’re all excited, but I’m a hardcore Star Wars fan. They’re normal, casual moviegoers. And I was like, “What did I just watch?” I walked out of the movie theater, I was so confused. I was like, “I have to go watch this again because I think Star Wars has just turned to something bad, terrible.”

Dr. Gwynette: Like a [inaudible 00:03:15].

Magnus: It just jumped completely different.

Jennifer: They use the subvert your expectations a bit too far. It’s like, yeah, it’s nice to be surprised, but you shouldn’t go out of character with characters.

Magnus: I was going to say, yeah, I agree with that. A major turning point for me was the political stuff that was forced in the Star Wars movie. I don’t watch Star Wars to get all this political stuff. I watch Star Wars to get away. Seriously. I get away from everything, you go in a galaxy far, far away.

Avery: Well in its defense, a lot of political stuff is a part of the world building. It is necessary to explain the other parts of the plot. It’s just… I’m holding in a bunch of rage, but [crosstalk 00:04:10]

Magnus: I felt like Kathleen Kennedy was just pushing her agenda with this force is female.

Avery: With this particular movie.

Magnus: That’s what I mean by that. I like Politics in the original and the prequels. There’s so much politics in the prequels. You see the Senator Palpatine just use his power, manipulate people without using anything. The only time he kills anyone is in self defense. You watch the prequels, anytime he kills someone, it’s in self defense.

Dr. Gwynette: You guys are going to laugh. For our listeners, I had to look up… So the emperor…

Jennifer: Yeah, Palpatine.

Dr. Gwynette: Palpatine. I didn’t realize that. I knew they looked alike, but why did they change his name to Palpatine from the emperor?

Jennifer: His name was always Palpatine.

Magnus: His name is Palpatine and he just went to the emperor at the end of Revenge of the Sith.

Avery: Emperor Palpatine.

Jennifer: That’s his big title.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay, gotcha. Because I figured they were the same guy, but they’re different names.

Jennifer: It makes no sense. Speaking of Palpatine, it makes absolutely no sense how he came back.

Magnus: This is the thing that pissed me off because I’m a huge Vader fan, and I think they as a retribution? No…

Dr. Gwynette: Get what’s coming to you?

Magnus: No, redemption, sorry. His redemption story’s just thrown in the trash. The way he threw Palpatine off and he just got vaporized. Is Palpatine was a clone? Did he not die?

Jennifer: It’s just like, “Oh.”

Magnus: It’s just like, okay. So Vader’s whole story, a Greek tragedy thrown away. It means nothing.

Dr. Gwynette: And what movie was that?

Magnus: This is Return of the Jedi.

Jennifer: The original trilogy.

Magnus: Yeah, the original trilogy, I’m sorry.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, exactly. I thought the emperor was dead at that point, but he wasn’t.

Magnus: No, he-

Jennifer: The Death Star blew up not once, but twice. It’s like, how?

Magnus: This is a thing that… Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Avery.

Avery: Well, technically they were, it explained in the… if you remember the title sequence of the original trilogy, I think it’s says that they built another Death Star. It’s like a backup, but they weren’t necessarily complete with it. So that’s technically not the same Death Star, but basically the same Deaths Star.

Jennifer: It’s probably because they were defeated and they were too weak to really do anything.

Avery: Oh wait. Anyways. Let me think. Sorry, this movie just makes me so mad that it… It’s like trying to… it’s like an awful bit of indigestion right here.

Magnus: Yeah. There’s a whole fan base like that. They’re like, that’s a Disney trilogy, that doesn’t count.

Avery: I felt like that through a lot of it, the entire trilogy. I’m having a hard time even expressing it.

Dr. Gwynette: So this is episodes eight and nine you’re talking about?

Jennifer: Force Awakens was all right.

Dr. Gwynette: The Force Awakens got me hyped for Star Wars again, I saw that 10, 12 times. I was so excited, there was so much potential in that movie. And then the star of The Last Jedi is Luke throwing the Light Saber off the cliff.

Jennifer: That just made me like, what?

Magnus: What was the point of The Force Awakens? And then you get some Luke Skywalker, [inaudible 00:07:52] it’s like, what? He’s like an island drinking a green milk from an alien? It’s just like, what’s happening to him? What happened to the hero at The Return of the Jedi? What happened to my idol? It’s just like, what did they turn him into?

Jennifer: All that character development just went right back down to zero again.

Avery: It’s made in a point where probably struggled for a long time after the effect just because they-

Magnus: PTSD?

Avery: Because they assumed he was just this magical heroic person.

Magnus: I think Ryan Johnson just wanted to get rid of old characters to tell you the truth. In with the new, out with the old as quick as possible.

Avery: That’s always a part of…

Magnus: Another thing that made me mad in The Last Jedi was like, really? Did Luke really OD on The Force? And it’s just like in the Rise of Skywalker, I get that the actor of Princess Leia died in real life. The way that she dies is the same way Luke dies. She ODs on The Force. I can’t put it any more simpler than that. I can’t.

Jennifer: I don’t understand why Luke died. It was just-

Magnus: He OD’d on The Force. It’s like, what did I just watch?

Jennifer: It was like, wait. He didn’t die. It was like, okay. So they had the fight with like Kylo Ren, right? So they’re like, oh, he used it there, so he’s not going to die. And then you see him on this rock, oh, he dies anyway. So I’m just like, wait, what?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. It’s confusing.

Magnus: The only thing I like about The Last Jedi is the throne room scene. I like that fight scene. That’s probably the best fight scene in the whole trilogy, the throne room scene.

Dr. Gwynette: Is that the one the lightsabers [inaudible 00:00:09:34]?

Magnus: Yeah. It just comes out [inaudible 00:09:36] with the red guards and stuff. That was really cool.

Dr. Gwynette: How much do you guys think Disney is influencing all this?

Magnus: They own it.

Dr. Gwynette: I mean are they poisoning the saga?

Jennifer: I don’t know about poisoning, I just feel like they didn’t plan it out. It seems obvious.

Avery: They were using the hype of getting people excited about Star Wars, but they didn’t-

Magnus: And the thing about it is George [crosstalk 00:10:05] Oh sorry.

Avery: Then they didn’t follow through. That’s the thing. Throughout the entire thing because of both the switching of directors, the not remembering certain plot points, just removed us from the world I think. Because a lot of us do it just so we can experience the world. It’s not always about the characters, but we do enjoy a character or two. But I personally just have this feeling of… Sorry, I’m climbing up again.

Dr. Gwynette: No, don’t worry. Don’t worry about it. Let it out.

Jennifer: Let it out.

Avery: Yeah, but the thing is…

Magnus: Disney’s paying for it.

Dr. Gwynette: So you feel like they chose the wrong director or they had wrong writing?

Magnus: They chose money over the fan base.

Jennifer: I don’t think it was wrong directors. It was obvious that they did not plan this out. If they had actually made a roadmap and planned it out and stayed with the same director. Switching everything around, because you’re going to have two conflicting visions clashing against each other. So that’s not going to help.

Avery: But that’s not solely because of it. It’s because of… Wait, I’m trying to remember. How many times did they switch director?

Magnus: Colin [inaudible 00:11:36]? I think his name was supposed to direct the Rise of Skywalker, which was supposed to be called [inaudible 00:11:40], which is actually a way cooler name. The script got leaked online.

Dr. Gwynette: On, on that note, sorry. [inaudible 00:11:51] of how Palpatine finally bit it.

Magnus: Oh my gosh. Oh no.

Avery: What garbage is this?

Magnus: I agree with that.

Avery: Oh geez, it’s not that it wasn’t a good idea, there was a thought behind it, but to die in that particular way-

Magnus: Just crossing the lightsabers and saying, “I am all the Jedi.” And he die. That’s it.

Avery: Here’s the thing, I would expect like some sort of… Oh man, sorry. I had this entirely how that could have been written better in my head.

Magnus: Oh yeah. They did a lot of editing on that scene as well.

Avery: Yeah. I could have come up with at least several different other things that could have used the similar plot points just to make that better. That is all I can think about now. Oh no, that’s bad.

Dr. Gwynette: Well, it’s almost a similar feeling to… you guys were probably not even born when the last Seinfeld episode came out. You heard about the backlash on that where it was like you had this amazing series and the last episode was just absolutely brutal and the public couldn’t stand it. And then the other thing-

Jennifer: It reminds me of how Game of Thrones ended.

Magnus: I liked how that ended.

Jennifer: Everybody loved it.

Magnus: I liked it because it was unexpected. That’s what I liked about Game of Thrones

Avery: I didn’t enjoy it. It removed from the… no.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah it was very similar for me watching that last episode of Game of Thrones, I was just like, that was one of the worst hours of television period I’ve ever watched. It was just brutal. You could’ve just sent me an email and said this is how it ends up.

Magnus: I can definitely-

Avery: We’re getting sidetracked on another note.

Magnus: [inaudible 00:13:51]

Avery: The basic concept of how we feel like we’re pumping out movies but we’re not considering the quality. We’re really not considering the quality when we’re pumping out things. No, we’re not particularly that great yet. But it’d be nice to… it’s always a good thing to try to improve. Either that or do it to the point where it has a certain quality standard.

Magnus: They need to bring George Lucas back. That’s the only way. It’s the only way.

Dr. Gwynette: I think so.

Magnus: They need to bring George Lucas, John Fabro, the guy who makes [inaudible 00:14:36] the Mandalorian and Dave Filoni who works on Star Wars Clone Wars that know the Star Wars lore. You need to get rid of Kathleen Kennedy and put someone who knows the Star Wars Clone and knows the fans.

Avery: Treat the saga with respect.

Magnus: And then the thing he was talking about how Palpatine died, that scene was completely rewritten. They had Liam Neeson, they had Samuel L Jackson. They were supposed to come out as Force ghosts. There was supposed to be this huge battle. Hayden Christensen was supposed to be back. How are they not going to put Hayden Christensen with the Darth Vader… Not one cameo. I was waiting from the day one of The Force Awakens to see Hayden Christsensen. No, they edited it, they cut out a lot of stuff because they tried to appease the Chinese market and the Chinese are not really into Star Wars. So they did a lot of cutting and editing to appease the market, which failed. And this is why the backlash is coming, this is what happens when you turn the fans. This was supposed to be the finale of a series, a movie that started in 1977 and we get this junk.

Avery: It’s really disappointing.

Magnus: What happened?

Dr. Gwynette: Jennifer, you were going to say something.

Jennifer: Yeah, I forgot what I was going to say.

Dr. Gwynette: Not a problem. Going forward, would we expect another saga film?

Magnus: I was actually reading up on that. They’re going to take a little bit of time. Because even though The Rise of Skywalker made a billion that’s very low for a finale of a series. They were expecting way more. It should have been way more. I walked into that movie underwhelmed. I was like, man, this is not going to be any worse than The Last Jedi. I just walked out, I was like, I’m just glad it’s over. I’m just waiting for the next series or movie to come out. But I’m just not that… I’ll be honest, I was a big fan, die hard fan. But just after the Disney trilogy just killed me inside a little bit.

Avery: I came in to the theater with expectations extraordinarily low, to the point of we’re scooping the bottom of the barrel here low, and then it screwed that up.

Magnus: And it’s just bad because Disney literally has a cash cow. Star Wars is a cash cow. The only way I can see it coming back, they need to bring George Lucas. And I could see George Lucas in his bed smirking somewhere, “You miss me now?” Because all the hate you receive for the prequels. I go back to their prequels and I appreciate Revenge of the Sith. That’s probably one of the top ones for me. Definitely Revenge of the Sith.

Avery: That’s episode three?

Magnus: Yeah.

Jennifer: Yeah, that was the whole reason why George Lucas even sold Star Wars, is because of all the hate he got. He was just like, I’m done.

Magnus: All the people who hated him, they’re like, please George Lucas come back, please come back.

Avery: Restore order.

Magnus: Please come back.

Jennifer: George Lucas had a script.

Magnus: Yeah, he had scripts.

Jennifer: [crosstalk 00:17:46] And Disney was just like, nope.

Magnus: Threw it away, I read about that.

Avery: Are you kidding me?

Magnus: Bob Eager threw it away, it’s in his book.

Jennifer: They were like, “Oh, we’re going to do our own thing.” And it’s just like, “Are you for real?”

Avery: That’s terrible.

Jennifer: You’re going to disrespect the creator like that?

Dr. Gwynette: I guess that’s what happens. When you sell something you lose control. So Jennifer, you mentioned that he sold it because of the fan backlash on episodes one, two and three?

Jennifer: Yeah, the prequels. People hated it. I don’t get that amount of hate. I can get some points.

Magnus: You say episode one is horrible, but I watched it in 1999 and that got me into Star Wars. I would have never been into Star Wars had I not seen episode one. I knew he receives a lot of backlash because Jar Jar Binks. But seeing Darth, what’s his name?

Jennifer: Darth [inaudible 00:18:35]?

Magnus: Yeah, Darth [inaudible 00:18:36]. That was like… the song at the end with Obi-Wan and [inaudible 00:18:42]. It’s just like, this is what I like about This Star Wars, how they fight-

Avery: I’ve only seen it once. And that’s the thing that’s weird is I’ve seen Star Wars probably 200 times. I’ve probably seen Empire Strikes Back about 30 times.

Magnus: [crosstalk 00:18:57].

Avery: And I’ve seen Return of the Jedi probably about 10 or 12 times, and certainly it’s my age, but also too, episode one Phantom Menace. I was just like, “Oh goodness, that’s terrible.” And then after that it became-

Magnus: You basically felt how I feel for this-

Avery: It felt like an obligation. Now I’ve got to see episode two and three. And then when you see them you’re like, okay, I saw them, and you’re like, this is significant. I think that we feel much more [crosstalk 00:19:25].

Magnus: I don’t think this saga is going to age too well like the prequel did. People go back, they’re like, the prequels weren’t that bad, I had a storyline, I was wrong George Lucas, maybe the dialogue was a bit boring, but that’s how Hayden… That’s how Darth Vader was supposed to be, Hayden Christian. I can’t see anyone else playing Darth Vader. I cannot see any other actor playing him. Hayden Christian is Anikin to me.

Jennifer: Did you hear the hate that that little 10 year old boy got?

Dr. Gwynette: Jake [crosstalk 00:19:55]?

Magnus: Yeah, he got into a speed racing accident over here a few years ago. It’s crazy.

Jennifer: And he nearly… Didn’t he… The Jar Jar Binks actor got huge depression.

Dr. Gwynette: The Jar Jar Bink actor got depression?

Jennifer: Yeah, All the backlash, all the hate.

Magnus: It’s like, I hate you Jar Jar. I don’t like the new… It’s just toxic fandom. Those same people that did that were like, I miss George Lucas. I don’t like this Disney trilogy. Give me back George Lucas now. Take my money.

Dr. Gwynette: Now, do you guys feel like episodes four, five and six are definitely in a class of their own?

Magnus: Yes, the original trilogy.

Jennifer: Oh yeah, the originals are… they’re good.

Avery: The originals we all love. The prequels, we had some heckling but we still-

Magnus: Go a whole new generation.

Jennifer: Develop the world a little bit more too.

Magnus: And this generation has to grow up with that, the Disney trilogy and then they go back to the other ones, they’re like, what? What did Disney do?

Dr. Gwynette: I think they really blew it. And I wonder sometimes as a huge conglomeration and corporation like Disney probably doesn’t care. Because they have their huge Star Wars world down in Orlando and-

Magnus: Apparently it’s actually doing really bad. They’re catering to the newer generation, they don’t have any of the older generation characters and those theme parks. Like I said, they’re trying to kill off the older characters and move onto a new generation of characters.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s wild.

Jennifer: I think they have a few.

Magnus: Very few. Very minimum.

Jennifer: They have [crosstalk 00:21:42] Darth Vader and stuff like that, but that’s… Storm Troopers.

Magnus: Very minimum.

Dr. Gwynette: No, exactly. So going forward, I guess the hope would be… and how old is George Lucas now? Is he getting pretty-

Magnus: I hope he can do another trilogy, please keep him alive for another trilogy.

Dr. Gwynette: And there’s talk of another trilogy?

Magnus: If they paid George Lucas to write them out.

Jennifer: Not [crosstalk 00:22:01] Skywalker, probably not.

Magnus: The Rise of Skywalker is… like I said, even though it made 1 billion, it was supposed to make a lot more.

Jennifer: God dang, he’s 75 years old.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So he’s getting up there.

Magnus: Yeah. And I’ll tell you, you’re never going to meet another Star Wars fan. They’re very hard to please, very hard.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Did you guys ever dress up for Halloween as a Star Wars character?

Jennifer: No.

Magnus: No, but-

Avery: I might’ve, I can’t remember.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, I was Darth Vader when I was three. I had a costume that was like a robe, and my mom sewed on some circles and squares and then I had the plastic mask and a lightsaber. Good to go. But you guys can’t remember any times that you dressed up in character?

Jennifer: I haven’t.

Avery: It was so long ago. I can’t even remember.

Dr. Gwynette: I was in Orlando at Hollywood Studios a couple of summers ago and it was pretty bone chilling and to see just 20 Storm Troopers lined up and marching [crosstalk 00:23:05] with Darth Vader out in front.

Magnus: I would love to go [crosstalk 00:23:09] but they need a lot more attractions there.

Dr. Gwynette: They need more juice- [crosstalk 00:00:23:14].

Magnus: They don’t understand the Star Wars fans, they will come, you just got to put the content in there.

Jennifer: In my opinion instead of just trying to appease the new one, appease both. Why not both?

Dr. Gwynette: Exactly.

Jennifer: It’s like you don’t have to have one or the other. you have so much money Disney. You could easily do both.

Magnus: A lot is riding on the Mandalorian. That’s what is keeping them afloat right now. The Star Wars fans, they really like the Mandalorian. It’s really good.

Jennifer: Rouge one was okay.

Magnus: I love Rogue One.

Avery: ZI haven’t seen that one.

Magnus: You haven’t seen it? You got to see Rogue One. I’m telling you, for me it’s got to be a Rogue One and then The Force Awakens and the rest of them count. I don’t want to talk about the other ones.

Avery: Rogue One is-

Magnus: Rogue One is very good.

Avery: It’s a story film?

Magnus: It’s a prequel to A New Hope, how they steal the Death Star plans.

Avery: Really?

Magnus: Yes.

Avery: So it is a saga film.

Magnus: 10 out of 10.

Jennifer: It’s like a little bit of a side film. But it expands more on how they beat the Death Star in the originals.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s awesome. So let’s go around each of you. We’re going to make a prescription for Disney of what they need to do to get Star Wars off life support. I’ll go first and give you guys some time to think. So I guess first is bring back George Lucas.

Jennifer: They aren’t going to do that.

Magnus: They have to, I don’t see any other way. There’s already talks of them… They got to get rid of Katherine Kennedy number one as well. Get rid of her.

Dr. Gwynette: Get rid of Kathleen Kennedy.

Magnus: Please, get rid of her.

Dr. Gwynette: Who is she?

Magnus: The person in charge of Star Wars.

Jennifer: She actually got an award apparently.

Magnus: For destroying Star Wars?

Jennifer: Pretty much. It’s like, Oh you have diversity in there. And I’m just like, so? So what?

Magnus: I want a story, I don’t care about the diversity. I want a good story line.

Jennifer: Diversity is nice and all, but you got to have a nice story to go along with it.

Magnus: This is what ruined it.

Dr. Gwynette: A lot of people are saying, oh, the Star Wars people don’t like a female lead. I don’t think that’s the case.

Magnus: Not true. Not true. False.

Dr. Gwynette: No, we love her.

Magnus: False.

Jennifer: Princess Leia, people freaking love her.

Magnus: Exactly, Princess Leia.

Dr. Gwynette: So I’ve heard, bring George Lucas back, get rid of Kathleen Kennedy, other… Jennifer, do you have any other prescriptions?

Jennifer: Show more respect to the originals instead of just trying to kill them off.

Magnus: Exactly. It’s the older Star Wars fans that kept it alive for so long and then you’re going to just spit in our face? What’s that about?

Jennifer: It’s like a slap in the face. It’s like, really? You’re going to treat the old characters?

Dr. Gwynette: Exactly, and then Avery your recommendations and let it fly. Don’t hold back.

Avery: Okay. I have everything. I’m going to say what pretty much anybody else would say like, you’ve got to get a cohesive storyline that is well written that has a balance of all the needs you’re trying to fulfill. On top of that, you need to cast appropriate actors for whichever role you need to them to play. They do it a lot. Yes they do, but they also need… This is the thing. It’s not the actor’s fault a lot of the time it’s where you’re going with the direction. You have to be very careful with the tone you set because any little thing you say [inaudible 00:26:52].

Jennifer: Reminds me of The Last Jedi how they tried to insert comedy into dead serious things [crosstalk 00:26:59].

Avery: Exactly, you need to pick a time for these things. And that was not the time.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, because Star Wars was the first… Episode four was very funny, but there were moments like, laugh it up fuzzball or [crosstalk 00:27:15].

Magnus: They do it right in the intro of The Last Jedi.

Dr. Gwynette: Or [inaudible 00:27:18] where he’s like…

Jennifer: This very tense moment in The Last Jedi where they’re being chased [crosstalk 00:27:22].

Magnus: And he does a your mother joke. What is this, kindergarten?

Jennifer: I’m just like, are you serious?

Magnus: I’ll tell you what [crosstalk 00:27:29] The Last Jedi exposed Rotten Tomatoes for being bought. It still says 92% are critics, and then fans 90 or something like that. It’s rigged. That site is 100% rigged.

Dr. Gwynette: Is that right? Oh, wow. I use IMDB usually because it’s got-

Magnus: It’s like the critics always score it high. If the critics score it high, it’s probably going to be bad. If they score it low it’s probably going to be decent.

Dr. Gwynette: So Jennifer, you said you read a lot of reviews or watched reviews. Where do you go?

Jennifer: YouTube. There was this one… I watched a lot of [inaudible 00:28:03] The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker reviews. Oh my goodness. Okay. Hold up. There’s this guy that has like… He has… I’m searching it up right now.

Magnus: What like Tim Casts?

Jennifer: No.

Dr. Gwynette: So there’s places you can go to watch reviews?

Jennifer: He has a-

Magnus: Jeremy Jones?

Jennifer: A three part critiquing of The Last Jedi. Each part is almost two hours because that’s how much is just wrong with it.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow. So it’s longer than the movie itself.

Magnus: It’s so much. Another thing Star Wars needs to do-

Jennifer: That’s how much is wrong with it.

Dr. Gwynette: Who posted that? What’s the guy’s name?

Jennifer: Mauler.

Dr. Gwynette: Mauler. Okay. And how many watches does it all have?

Magnus: There are so many reviews on The Last Jedi.

Jennifer: Oh my God, they have over a million views each.

Magnus: There’s so many vids like that too, multiple vids like that.

Avery: Please, just… You don’t even need this podcast for this. You can look this stuff up. There’s no point. This is no debate at this point.

Dr. Gwynette: I consider you guys experts though because we talk about it a lot off air.

Jennifer: This guy, he did two hours on The Rise of Skywalker without any…

Dr. Gwynette: With no script?

Magnus: What a very underwhelming finale to one of the most beloved movie series of all time.

Jennifer: No, [inaudible 00:29:30] I was just like, really?

Magnus: How many times did they try to kill each other and just going to kiss?

Jennifer: Exactly.

Magnus: And then-

Jennifer: It came out of no where.

Avery: There was no build up,

Magnus: There wasn’t.

Avery: There was no story build up.

Magnus: And you know when he got pushed off the ledge and he climbed out, I was like, oh, so this is the rise of Skywalker, when he’s climbing off the ledge. This is the rise of Skywalker.

Jennifer: [inaudible 00:29:57] kiss out of no where, I’m just like, excuse me, how many people has literally been killed?

Magnus: You literally have been trying to kill each other and you’re just going to go and kiss.

Jennifer: How many people has he killed?

Magnus: It’s like, really?

Jennifer: Billions, probably.

Avery: The thing is, if there was a point where they could have add an actual redemption arc, I love a good redemption arc. If you do it right, sure it was a very brief one, but it was a fairly okay one.

Magnus: You know what would have added to that? If he helped Ray kill Palps with the signature move with his lightsaber, where was that? Signature to the back, taking that lightsaber and just stabbing him through the back. It should have happened like that.

Jennifer: Didn’t Palpatine say that he wanted Ray to kill her and then he killed her and then it’s like, hold up. Is he coming back again? Or is he actually gone now?

Dr. Gwynette: That’s the thing. It’s almost like a soap opera where you’re like, you never know if the characters are truly gone.

Avery: Yeah. It’s, oh okay, now we’re getting to comic books.

Dr. Gwynette: So the state of the franchise, if you guys could describe the state of the franchise in one word and then we’ll wrap up in a minute.

Magnus: On life support right now.

Dr. Gwynette: Life support.

Magnus: Actually, it’s on life support. It has the Mandalorian and The Clone Wars, they’re okay. But for the movies, I don’t know.

Jennifer: So before all this, it was a healthy franchise. Very profitable or whatever. But now it’s just barely alive.

Dr. Gwynette: So life support. Barely alive. How about Avery? One word.

Avery: I have nothing to say.

Avery: Wow.

Jennifer: Yeah. I would say Mandalorian-

Magnus: They pissed off the fans they don’t want to piss off, the Star Wars ones. Unforgivable.

Avery: What I would end up saying is just no. I know that people will have their own opinions on whatever it is.

Jennifer: Yeah, people can like those. That’s fine. They can like them if they want.

Avery: They can, but I’m just particularly a fan of things that are world-building and properly-

Dr. Gwynette: George Lucas.

Avery: Things have to be a certain way. I’m very particular when it comes to certain things. I can tolerate a lot of stuff when it comes to the storyline. I will literally just even go watch something terrible just to nitpick at something. Little good bits. But it’s like, oh wow.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Like you said, just no. As we wrap up, would you guys say, and I don’t mean this in a joking way, but has the turn South of the franchise, has that impacted your wellbeing at all?

Jennifer: What do you mean?

Magnus: I’ll say yes. Yes because when I first saw [inaudible 00:33:04] in 1999, I like to watch a movie and get away. That’s what Star Wars was for me. This whole world frigging ninjas with lightsabers, swords. And then it just ruined it. It was a huge part. I love Star Wars and now I hate it. I don’t hate but I love it. But I hate the Disney trilogy.

Avery: Didn’t you mention that you were down for a month?

Magnus: Yeah. It’s just like what? What do they do? And it’s just like, what did I just watch?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Did either Avery or Jennifer, did you guys feel depressed or sad?

Jennifer: If I shut my brain off with the new trilogy, it’s good because of all the action. But if I turn my brain on, I’m just like, there’s a lot of problems with it.

Avery: I feel a revulsion, actually. It’s pretty deep disgust and an insult. It’s like the feeling you get when you hear a roach in the dark and then you turn on a flashlight and there it is. It runs away.

Dr. Gwynette: Just revulsion, yeah.

Avery: Like among the common household, not everybody feels that way about all insects. But I mean me in particular, I don’t like the way roaches sound. It’s the scraping noise that gets me, it’s less the texture. It’s… Oh man.

Dr. Gwynette: Just creepy. Revulsion, like you said.

Avery: No, it’s more so it’s like an auditory discomfort for me. I guess I just got climatized to it and exposed to negative feelings towards them. I don’t really hate roaches altogether. It’s just, nevermind. This is a really dumb [crosstalk 00:34:54] I’m going to ramble on.

Magnus: You’re saying Disney are roaches. I get it.

Dr. Gwynette: I think we’ve got four people who really love Star Wars and we’re all in the same room talking and we’ve given Disney a lot to think about because we’re all die hards and we think that there needs to be some major change going forward. If the series is going to go forward at all.

Magnus: Believe me, I want to go in my wallet and be like, Disney, take my money, but make a good movie. They don’t want to listen.

Jennifer: Earn my money.

Magnus: There’s literally people that are like, take my money but have a good Star Wars movie.

Dr. Gwynette: Well I wanted to thank you guys for coming on. Magnus, really appreciate you coming on the show. Jennifer, it was great to have you. Avery, awesome job as usual and you’ve been listening to the Autism News NetWORK podcast on Star Wars and why Star Wars is not as great as it used to be. We are at the Medical University of South Carolina. You can check out our website, theautismnewsnetwork.com we have lots of cool videos on there about first person accounts as well as expert interviews, and you can follow me at drgwynette on Twitter and Instagram. We thank you for joining us and we’ll see you next time.

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