Joshua Miller: Welcome to the Autism News NetWORK. My name is Joshua and I’m here with Kyle Kilvington and today we will be interviewing Dr. Boyer. She’s a child and adolescent psychiatrist at MUSC, otherwise known as the Medical University of South Carolina. She has a heart for autism and we are thankful that she has taken time out of her busy schedule to let us interview her. I will also be joined by Dr. Gwynette and Miss [Erin 00:00:32].
Let’s get started, shall we? I know it’s early. At the time of this recording it’s 9:20, so hopefully everyone’s awake and feeling good. All right, the first question for Dr. Boyer is, where are you from originally?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: I am from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Joshua Miller: Dr. Boyer, what is your role at the MUSC?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: I’m a child and adolescent psychiatry fellow. I just started my second year of training and last of many.

Joshua Miller: Where did you complete your undergraduate and medical school at, if you don’t mind us asking?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Of course. I went to Duke for undergrad and Lake Forest for medical school, and then I went to Emory for residency, and then I came here.

Joshua Miller: Where’s that last school at?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Emory is in Atlanta.

Kyle Kilvington: Dr. Boyer, did you ever witness bullying against a loved one?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yeah, unfortunately. My little brother has autism. He’s 26 now, so he’s an adult, but I guess I should start by saying he is… Autism is a spectrum and he is definitely on the lower functioning end, so he is largely nonverbal, can say a few words, but mostly noises. And so, a lot of bullying I witnessed was probably when we were both kids and families would be over at each other’s houses; and so the kids would be, say in the den, watching TV, he would be making a lot of noises or flopping his hands and my peers had never heard of autism. My family hadn’t until Corey was diagnosed. And so, they’d say, “Oh, can you make him be quiet? Why can’t he just stop? Corey, shut up,” that kind of thing.
They didn’t mean it in a bad way. They just thought there’s this kid who’s making noise while we’re trying to watch TV. And so, I don’t know if that’s bullying because they didn’t really know what they were doing, but it was definitely hard for me at times and can definitely be hurtful, so I just had to learn. Sometimes it really got to me and other times I was able to move him out of the situation and just take us to do our own thing.

Joshua Miller: How did your family cope with the challenges when your brother were growing up?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: That’s a good question and I think every family is different and every family’s challenges are so, so different, depending on the individual with the autism, and their needs, and their abilities. But I think that the main thing we all learned from it is just you have to stick together. I think it’s easy when there are challenges, especially when we can’t directly address Corey about them or he wouldn’t understand what the issue is, for us to all go at each other.
And so, I think the most important thing in dealing with the challenges, first remembering that we’re all a team, even if we don’t have the answers and we have to just work together. I think an added challenge is obviously I was a kid too for much of this. We’re about three and a half years apart, so I think my parents had the added challenge of including me and being honest with me, but also remembering that I wasn’t an adult and might not be able to handle all of it. I think that was a different challenge for them that I think they did a really good job at. But yeah, working together as a team and also just for them what they could do knowing that I was a sibling and not another parent.

Kyle Kilvington: That leads into the next question I have for you, Dr. Boyer. I assume by you having a brother with autism that that helped develop your heart for autism. How did you exactly develop it?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: It was just always a big part of my life. Growing up, every Saturday we went to this art and music therapy program for kids with autism that my brother did; and so, I started volunteering in that when I was in elementary school – not that I’m really artistic or musical, but I would sit in and try to help. And so it was just always a big part of my life. And so it’s just natural. It never really felt like, “Oh, I’m choosing to have an interest in this.” It was just part of my life.

Joshua Miller: That’s good to hear. Let me ask a question, let me go off script for a little bit, if that’s all right. Because I know for me growing up with autism, I’m 33, so when I was a kid and everything, people really didn’t know that much about it. It was always assumed that it was almost like pregnancy. You either had all the symptoms or you didn’t, and the ones that were high functioning like myself, you fell through the cracks. So, how would you say… because I don’t know how old your brother is… but what would you say that…? How do I want to say this? Would you say that that played a role in him growing up? Did y’all have resources, I guess I’m trying to say? Or were y’all more or less had to figure it out on yours own, like I did?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yeah, I think-

Joshua Miller: Or my mom did.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Corey’s 26, but I think when was younger too, nobody really knew what it was either. My family certainly hadn’t heard of it when he was diagnosed in the mid to late 90s. I think we found a lot of helpful resources along the way, but I agree a lot of it you have to navigate. Even if you’re trying to get resources, what are the resources? The resources Corey needs are probably different than the ones you needed because you were so much higher functioning; I think it was a lot of guesswork. I think one of the great things now, for instance, with the projects like this is I think people have heard of autism now because of projects like this, and other awareness campaigns. And so, at least there’s that, right? And so-

Joshua Miller: Right.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: But if you’re lower functioning or, as you said, higher functioning and maybe not meeting every criterion, you’re still being able to hopefully get more understanding now.

Joshua Miller: Yeah. I feel like it is improving. We still got a ways to go as far as [crosstalk 00:06:56] out, but it is definitely an improvement, especially from when I was a kid.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yeah, I bet. I think you’re totally right; there’s still a lot of room for improvement.

Kyle Kilvington: Since we’re on the personal experiences, how has your personal experience with your brother helped your medical practice?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Well, I hope it’s helped. I hope it helps make me a more empathetic provider. Now I’ve known the role of family member and I’ve known the role of doctor. And so, I hope that when I’m in my doctor role, I’m able to remember what it’s like to be a family, remember the questions I had, the uncertainties, the stressors. And so just try to help families from my medical background and a place in my heart, just even little things like questions maybe I had that they’re not asking, but I think they’re going to have. You know?

Kyle Kilvington: Right.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yeah, so just trying to meld those two as best as I can.

Joshua Miller: Yeah. Because there are some things that you just can’t learn from a textbook that having personal experience, either as a family member or as on the spectrum, you just can’t really get from a textbook in my opinion. Wouldn’t you agree?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Definitely. I think you’re totally right.

Joshua Miller: I know that you said at the start of this that you’re at the medical university. What are your career aspirations as far as the future goes?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yes. I’m finally really having to start to think about this for real after so long, but I think I enjoy outpatient care the most, so I’d like to work with children and adolescents – general psychiatry, outpatient. But I would also like to specialize in autism. I think that’s something that I’m necessarily interested in and it still means a lot to me.
And then, the other thing is, the great thing about psychiatry is that we do adult training first, so just because I’ve done child training doesn’t mean I can’t see adults. And so, the plan is definitely for my patients with autism, but I think probably for all of them, if they come to me as children and then they get older and they become adults, I can still keep seeing them. I think that kind of continuity is really helpful, especially in something like autism where I think a lot of adult providers don’t really specialize in that. But I think it’s great that it’s not like we’re pediatricians where there’s this age cut off and you got to get out of here. Right?

Joshua Miller: Right.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: And so, I would really like to just be able to keep seeing my patients across the life span, regardless of their age.

Joshua Miller: Yeah. That would be good because I know for myself, I don’t really do good with changes, even small ones or even big dramatic life-changing ones either. I do better with consistency.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yeah. I think that’s a great point: to not put individuals with autism through some unnecessary change like that, especially when it comes to their medical care.

Joshua Miller: Exactly, yes.

Kyle Kilvington: So, looking far into the future, Dr. Boyer, do you worry what will happen with your brother when your parents pass on?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Definitely. That’s been a huge topic in my household for the past several years. I think the thing about that one is my parents have made really unbelievable efforts in working towards a plan, but just because you put in the effort doesn’t mean that a plan materializes, so things are really up in the air right now, I think. We know he’s going to need to live with someone who can care for him. Whether that’s a group home, whether that’s with me, it’s really unclear. I think when you’re looking at these homes, you have to, one, think about, does it suit that individual? We looked at a couple that they’re actually based on farms and he really loved the outdoors, so that would be a great option.
But then, also with someone like Corey, the other thing to think about is he’s barely verbal and so that makes him, unfortunately, a really easy victim for mistreatment; so we need to put him in a place, if he goes elsewhere and not with me, it needs to be somewhere we trust so much because he can’t tell us if he’s being mistreated. I think that adds another layer of complication to where he would go. I think, at the end of the day, there’s a great chance he’s going to live with me, which I think will present some challenges, but I think whatever situation makes him happy and healthy is what we need to do.

Joshua Miller: That sounds really good. What would you tell the parents of a 13-year-old with autism about how they can best help their child prepare for adulthood?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: That’s a great question because I think it’s something I’m going to encounter a lot in my medical practice as well. I think just saying, “Really pay attention to, one, what makes your kid happy and to what their abilities are and plan from there.” And then, “Really just make sure that you’ve got the things ironed out for their adulthood in terms of, do you think you’re going to need to take guardianship when they’re 18? Because that takes a lot of planning and could be really important. Starting to think about things like, are they going to get a full high school diploma or certificate? What is their ability there? Even thinking about where they might live when they’re adults, even though that’s far out.” And then also, I think we all have this tendency to look at the future and have trouble just being present, so, “Remembering that your kid with autism is here now and being the best parent you can be for them right now.”

Joshua Miller: Yeah, I would definitely agree. It’s never too early to start planning for the future if you have a child with autism because it’ll be on you before you know it. When it comes to getting help from the government, it takes time to fill out the forms. It takes time to get authorization and approval. In my personal meaning, I believe that it’s never too early to start planning for that because it will be on you before you know, unfortunately.

Kyle Kilvington: Especially if the child is going to be… or adolescent is going to be one of those who cannot go out into the working field because of their autism. Getting them on disability is a difficult process.

Joshua Miller: Yes, it is.

Kyle Kilvington: My mom actually achieved it way back when, but I personally am 100% disabled, according to the government’s… I don’t know if I’d ever actually be able to work at a job. I’d have to volunteer places.

Dr. Gwynette: And enter the Autism News NetWORK because Kyle and Josh are already working. They’re cutting a podcast right now. What are you doing? Our goal is to create the Autism News NetWORK to be a job source for adults like Kyle and Josh, so they can get paid for doing this awesome work.

Joshua Miller: Dr. Boyer, let me just wrap this up, what do you think of the Autism News NetWORK?

Dr. Andrea Boyer: I think this is the coolest thing. I really haven’t seen much like it, but I think it’s a really wonderful project. As Dr. Gwynette said, it supplies jobs and teaches skills, and then also allows for a community to be formed around this, and bringing together like-minded people, and then individuals with autism connect with one another. I just think it’s a really great and unique project and I hope we see things like this pop up elsewhere.

Joshua Miller: I know last week, I know… What was it? It was either last week or two weeks, I know we interviewed some people out in, I think it was Houston, wasn’t it, Dr. Gwynette, that’s doing something similar?

Dr. Gwynette: Yep.

Joshua Miller: We’ll post the link to it, the YouTube link in the comment in the description below on the YouTube channel, but it’s for people to watch that one. But yeah, we definitely need more programs like this. As we wrap this interview up, does anybody else have any questions like Miss Erin or Dr. Gwynette, or even you Kyle? Or even you, Dr. Boyer, do you want to ask us any questions?

Dr. Gwynette: I got a comment and for some reason I’m thinking of Dr. Boyer and I’m picturing her as a tree. She’s been kind enough to share her roots with us. And then, she’s a tree that’s, of course, growing towards a very fruitful career and she’s almost completed her training now. I’m just thinking based on her roots, and her family, and her personal experiences, how many patients and families are going to benefit from her firsthand experience? How many families will seek out and receive shade from that tree, based on Dr. Boyer’s experience and her hard work and dedication in this area? So, we wanted to just acknowledge that and thank Corey, who’s not on the podcast, but just for being who he is because he’s helping his sister help others, so shout out to Corey.

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Yes. I think that’s a great point. I don’t think I would have been in this career without him.

Joshua Miller: This has been the Autism News NetWORK with myself, Joshua Miller, and Kyle Kilvington, signing off and saying, have a great day!

Dr. Andrea Boyer: Thank you so much for having me.

Kyle Kilvington: Thanks, bye.