Dr. Gwynette: Hello and welcome to the Autism News NetWORK Podcast. We are joined today by an all-star crew. First of all, I want to introduce to you one of our newest Autism News NetWORK members, Kaede.

Kaede: Hey.

Dr. Gwynette: And of course, a stalwart of the Autism News NetWORK and the entire podcast library. You know him, you love him, the Godfather.

Godfather/Scott: Howdy.

Dr. Gwynette: And, of course Erin Hopper, one of our star students here at the Autism News NetWORK. Hi Erin.

Erin: Hey, Dr. Gwynette. Hey Kaede. Hey Godfather.

Godfather/Scott: Howdy.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, it’s great to have everybody here. Now, this one I think is pretty exciting because it’s going to talk about the levels of Autism. And, as many people know, autism comes in all kinds of shapes, sizes, presentations, skillsets, what have you. We even have a cool graphic that we’re going to share with our audience. Kind of explaining how different everyone on the spectrum is and how they all have unique abilities. But really, Kaede, this was podcast that is near and dear to your heart. Isn’t it?

Kaede: Yeah, I guess so.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And I’m going to turn it over to you now, but when somebody says levels of autism, what does that mean to you?

Kaede: The severity of autism, there is mild, moderate and severe.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And in terms of severe, let’s just go like a severe case. Like what would a person with severe autism look like and sound like?

Kaede: Well, severe autism. Well, it’s hard to explain, but here’s some symptoms of it.

Dr. Gwynette: Sure.

Kaede: Not able to learn well, wants things to stay the same. Example, wanting to go to the same place and all the time, even in a car.

Dr. Gwynette: Oh, so like being on a strict schedule.

Kaede: Yep. Hitting people for no reason. Not able to talk well, getting very upset when not getting their way.

Dr. Gwynette: Right.

Kaede: Self harm.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Self harm. These are common presentation symptoms that we see in the clinics. And sometimes that’s for the reason people look for help is things like problems talking, problems staying calm.

Kaede: Yes.

Dr. Gwynette: What other symptoms are out there?

Kaede: Well, there’s sensory issues, unable to control vocal volume, and can’t take care of themselves.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Yeah. And then in terms of your understanding of the autism levels, is there like a line, like people walk around and they have a line on them and tells them where they are on the autism spectrum? Or do we have to just like…?

Kaede: I think you can tell by their feet when they’re like this and when they’re spread out with the heels together and stuff and they walk like that.

Dr. Gwynette: No, let me rephrase it. Is there a way that you can tell how severe someone’s autism is by looking at them?

Kaede: Yes. Sometimes they have their feet, they walk with their heels together and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: Really? I haven’t, I’ve never heard of that.

Kaede: Well, I’ve seen that.

Dr. Gwynette: You’ve seen it in person?

Kaede: Yeah, with their feet sideways, facing away from each other.

Dr. Gwynette: Gotcha. Cool. And then how do you know if somebody seems to be like higher functioning?

Kaede: If they don’t do that. And sometimes I can’t tell if they’re, they have autism.

Dr. Gwynette: ‘Cause they’re so mild?

Kaede: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, yeah absolutely. Has anyone ever surprised you and said, “oh, by the way, I have autism,” and like you would never, ever realize?

Kaede: Oh yeah. Yes I have.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And Godfather, have you had that experience?

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: Quite often.

Dr. Gwynette: What was your reaction to somebody when you say, when they disclosed to you, they have autism, but maybe you weren’t thinking about it?

Godfather/Scott: Little bit shocked, but then I come around too. Well, I present kind of mild too, for the most part. I do have my moments when I’m not mild, but.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah. And there’s two other levels of autism.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Go ahead.

Kaede: There’s moderate, which is able to talk, but not very able and learn. Well, people with moderate autism can talk, but not able to learn very well. They may have sensory issues. They may hit people for no reason. They may do self harm. They’re unable to control their vocal volume and have a hard time taking care of themselves.

Dr. Gwynette: Cool. So that’s another kind of level?

Kaede: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: And then what’s the last level?

Kaede: Mild.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay.

Kaede: Some sensory issues. Able to learn, sometimes in a different way, can be picky. Some get upset when not getting their way. Self harm possible, able to talk. Some tend to zone out and able to take care of themselves. As for me, I have mild autism even though I still got issues.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Do you mind sharing with the audience some of the ways that you experience autism?

Kaede: Well, I guess. Well, I met other people with autism. When someone at that psychiatric place I was at, it was hell, and she had moderate to mild autism and I feel kind of bad for her.

Dr. Gwynette: Could you tell a difference between her symptoms and your symptoms?

Kaede: Yes. She’s unable to control her vocal volume, which is sad.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah. And I’m also dealing with some trauma from that psychiatric residential place. How was that?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So you struggled there?

Kaede: Yes. Very much.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: And I really suffered.

Erin: But you know what I heard in that was, there was somebody else there with you and you actually had empathy for her because you saw that she was more severe in her symptoms than you were.

Kaede: Yeah. And she doesn’t understand.

Erin: So do you think you’re understanding and her not understanding has to do with levels?

Kaede: I guess. And she doesn’t understand what autism is and she can’t tell between friends or enemies, which is sad. And people just torture her. They are mean to her and stuff. They bully her and it’s not fair.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And the bullying is such a big component of what many experience is that challenging for you Kaede and Scott or Godfather?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah. And anyway, when I was at that place that I totally regressed.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Tell us about that.

Kaede: Well, when I was at that psychiatric residential place, I was so stressed out. I was very homesick. I was very sad and I wanted to go home so badly. I even tried to escape and tried to lie my way out of that place. But none of it worked. I was kept against my own will. And I carried around stuffed animals for comfort and asked people to call me Butterfly or whatever, compliment me every time someone else insulted me. I just wanted to be babied because I was pathetic.

Dr. Gwynette: So it was not…

Kaede: What?

Dr. Gwynette: You were not in a good place.

Kaede: Right? That place is hell.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And how have you recovered?

Kaede: I had a few support. I had some people to support me, a few people, like a boy who really clung onto me because he was experiencing what I was experiencing, except he didn’t carry around stuffed animals, but he did self harm. And, I don’t think he had autism.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And have you received support from some of your Autism News NetWORK peers?

Kaede: I think I have, but not while I was there.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, yeah. So only in the year, since you got out of the residential treatment, have you been able to recover?

Kaede: Not really.

Dr. Gwynette: No?

Kaede: I’m still in dealing with a lot of trauma, like the weight gain, the nightmares, depression, and even suicidal thoughts. And also I experienced lots of prejudice there.

Dr. Gwynette: Oh really?

Kaede: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: What kind?

Kaede: Well, racial trauma. I mean, I was dealt with racism.

Dr. Gwynette: What do you do to cope with the trauma?

Kaede: Well, I sometimes listen to music and stuff. I don’t want to say, but I say that. I say, damn you name of the place.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: Because I’m so traumatized.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And godfather, are you hearing that? What does that make you want to say to Kaede?

Godfather/Scott: Kind of just makes me want to cry. I’m not going to lie. That’s awful.

Kaede: Yeah. I know. And that place needs to shut down.

Godfather/Scott: It reminds me of my time living in New York, which I honestly don’t miss. Growing up as a child in New York is great. If you have autism, once you hit 18, that’s not the place for you.

Erin: How’s that, Scott? What changes at 18?

Godfather/Scott: At 18, they think that autism just magically goes away. It’s cured.

Kaede: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: I actually had a caseworker who asked me point blank, “Well, haven’t you grown out of it?”

Dr. Gwynette: Oh wow.

Kaede: Terrible.

Godfather/Scott: What? I actually dropped the phone in my mom’s hands. I’m like, I’m done.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: You take over. And she goes, what’s my. I said, just answer her question. Well, the woman asked her the same exact question. I thought my mother was going to be a rocket ship, ’cause she was blasting her mouth off at that woman.

Dr. Gwynette: How different is it? Like how different are the challenges in childhood compared to adulthood?

Godfather/Scott: Oh, immense.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Can you give some example?

Godfather/Scott: Oh, well in high school it wasn’t so bad for myself because I did do some regression. I loved to play in the sandbox. That was my coping mechanism. After dealing with a stressful day, I’d just go out and play in the sandbox. I had my own little world set up out there.

Dr. Gwynette: Right.

Godfather/Scott: But, everybody else in high school, if they had known that, they would’ve been like, well that’s babyish, that’s ridiculous. You shouldn’t be doing that. Honestly, I have to beg to differ and say, why shouldn’t you? If it makes you feel comfortable and gives you some stress relief, use it.

Kaede: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: As long as it’s not something illegal, I wouldn’t suggest it if it were illegal.

Kaede: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: And Kaede, how about for you? What’s what are the differences between being a child with autism and being an adult with autism?

Kaede: Well, it’s pretty hard. When I was in, when I was a child, I had ABA services and I was in a general ED school as a child. And I had autism itinerate with me up until high school.

Godfather/Scott: Doctor Gwynette?

Kaede: What?

Godfather/Scott: Can you explain, what is ABA?

Kaede: Well, it’s autism services. It’s like one-on-one or something. My mom does it sometimes.

Dr. Gwynette: Right, it’s a type of therapy where you focus in on skills building and it’s designed to use positive reinforcement to bring out more socially appropriate behaviors and hopefully extinguish behaviors that might not be socially appropriate.

Kaede: Right.

Godfather/Scott: Okay, so the service to help teach like masking skills?

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Or just to enhance communication, to enhance sometimes cognition, like could be reading or math or it could be talking. It could be the ability to tolerate change or the ability to be more social with people, to be more inclusive of in your world with others. So, but it’s very intense. Lots, lots of hours. And it’s not always easy to find a good ABA therapist, you know?

Godfather/Scott: No.

Kaede: Yeah, you’re right.

Godfather/Scott: It’s kind of like a psychiatrist or a psychologist. You got to do research. You got to go and meet, talk with and learn who’s going to fit. Not everybody is going to be a perfect fit.

Kaede: Right. And also, as for the autism itinerant, I had someone with me all the time in school.

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: Was that difficult?

Kaede: Somewhat, yeah. But at least one of them helped me with the bullying situation in middle school.

Dr. Gwynette: I see. Because it’s hard to bully somebody if they have an itinerant right there?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah, they don’t…

Godfather/Scott: Or, if the bullying starts occurring, they immediately put an extinguish to it. Like it’s done. It’s done.

Kaede: Yeah. But I dealt with chronic bullying and it was just really harsh.

Erin: Was that before you had your itinerant or is that during?

Kaede: It was during.

Erin: It was during?

Kaede: I’ve been bullied since I was in elementary school.

Erin: But your itinerant didn’t intercede on your behalf?

Kaede: Well, one of them did in middle school, only the one in middle school.

Erin: Oh, I understand.

Kaede: Yeah. And I also had to deal with so much bullying that I actually went insane from it.

Erin: What did that look like?

Kaede: It was just horrible. I lost faith in religion and I became a corrupt, a satanist. I mean, I just went completely insane. Well, I’m not a Satanist anymore. I’m a Kemetic.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. What’s that?

Kaede: I worship the Egyptian gods. And, Doctor Gwynette, you remember me when I was troubled as a teenager?

Dr. Gwynette: I do.

Kaede: Yes. And I even drew pentacles and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. I think you were really disillusioned with life.

Erin: So Kaede, what kind of strengths do you have that got you from delusional to today? What kind of coping skills do you have and strengths to? I mean, today we’re sitting here today, and…

Kaede: I have my music, I have my cat, but I also love playing video games, like Animal Crossing and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s awesome. Do you feel like video games has been an escape from some of your troubles or just a fun outlet?

Kaede: Both, yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: Oh, DOS games, especially. They make me feel nostalgic. I love MS-DOS games.

Godfather/Scott: Oh my God.

Dr. Gwynette: Did you, did you hear, I talked to you about Zork before, right?

Kaede: Not that I know of.

Dr. Gwynette: Didn’t I talk to you and your mom about Zork? You ever played Zork?

Kaede: No, I never heard of that.

Dr. Gwynette: Oh, Gosh. So it was an MS-DOS game. So you type in walk forward, it says you come…

Kaede: Oh, that. The text ones. I’m not into text ones.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, you come to a door. So you say open door, door leads to a hall, walk down hall.

Kaede: Yeah. I wouldn’t do that. I don’t like…

Dr. Gwynette: Oh my gosh. And it was like, but before you type in your response and then the, the computer would be like, [inaudible 00:16:32]. You see an old man. Talk to man. [inaudible 00:16:37]. Old man walks away. It’s like hours.

Kaede: Yeah, I could never do anything. I could never do text adventures.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, you could type in attack man. They would say, man, and whatever, it was really abstract. Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: So, you enjoy games and what kind of MS-DOS games do you play?

Kaede: I usually play point and click, and also first person shooters. Power Sleeve is my favorite.

Dr. Gwynette: Cool. Do you feel like people with autism like video games more?

Kaede: Maybe? Yeah. My brother likes video games and he doesn’t have autism.

Dr. Gwynette: What do you think, Godfather?

Godfather/Scott: I find it’s a great place for us to be able to escape the world and go and get out of our own mind, and clear our head of the nasty thoughts or thoughts that we don’t need to have in our head.

Kaede: Yeah. But sometimes it makes it hard for me because I have a PTSD.

Dr. Gwynette: So…Yeah, go ahead.

Kaede: Like for sometimes while I’m playing a game, a PTSD starts acting up and I start getting memories and they’re painful.

Erin: Like physically painful?

Kaede: Emotionally and mentally, not physically. And sometimes I remember being punched in the face at that place I was at. And that place is just sick.

Dr. Gwynette: So, what do the video games do for you?

Kaede: Well, they help me escape and they get me into some other things and cool stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: Have you met people through playing video games?

Kaede: Yep. I get to know people through video games. Like, for example, I’m really fond of Regal from Tales of Symphonia.

Godfather/Scott: Gotten to meet people through video games because most of my video games were on the consoles. Not online.

Kaede: That’s not what I meant. I meant like the characters in the video games. I feel like I have relationships with them and I even have dreams about them.

Dr. Gwynette: You have dreams about video game characters?

Kaede: Yeah. Like Regal Bryant from Tales of Symphonia. He’s such a sweetie.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow. Wow. That’s like so vivid, isn’t it?

Kaede: Yep. I mean, he’s such a gentleman. Even to me.

Dr. Gwynette: In the dream?

Kaede: Yes. And I like to imagine him that he’s real, but he’s not at actually real. He’s just a character.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. So has that been a pattern for you, to cross over between fantasy and reality?

Kaede: Yes.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay.

Kaede: I actually pretended that the characters are real, but I don’t actually pretend, pretend. I just imagine.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. What about the Kemetic gods? Is that something that is real or not?

Kaede: It is real. It’s totally real. I’ve been Kemetic since I was in middle school.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: And I thought I was the founder of Kemetism, until years later I discovered Tamara.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow. So you connected with other people in that area?

Kaede: Yeah. I started to message Tamara, giving her a blessing and stuff, and Wikipedia brought us together.

Dr. Gwynette: Interesting.

Kaede: Oh, you can take the Wikipedia part out.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay.

Kaede: Anyway, Tamara and I have been getting along for almost six or seven years, typing each other messages, kind messages. And I have to give her a lot of credit, because she is a hero.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s really neat.

Kaede: And also, I’m very, very overjoyed that I’m not the only Kemetic in the world.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. I mean, I actually hadn’t heard much about it until meeting you.

Kaede: Yeah. I actually thought I was the founder of Kemetism, because I fell in love with Tutankhamun. You know, King Tut? Yeah. I’m madly in love with King Tut.

Dr. Gwynette: How do you learn information about him?

Kaede: Well, I like to go online and stuff and read books about ancient Egypt and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: And are there places you can connect with people to talk to them about your interest in Egyptology and…?

Kaede: Oh yes. There’s Facebook and then there’s the House Netjer forums.

Dr. Gwynette: What do you say to people if they say, Hey, you’re in love with a guy who’s not living anymore?

Kaede: I’ve actually been teased about that, saying that he’s not real. And that’s just cruel.

Dr. Gwynette: Is it possibly in love with someone who’s not alive anymore?

Kaede: Yes, there’s life after death.

Dr. Gwynette: Really interesting. Yeah, I think in America there’s sometimes people can be in love with James Dean or Jim Morrison or, I’m trying to think of other people, Kurt Cobain.

Godfather/Scott: Hendricks.

Dr. Gwynette: Jimmy Hendricks, yeah. So there is a precedent for that.

Kaede: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. How about you, Scott? Do you have an intense fantasy life as well?

Godfather/Scott: Not quite so much anymore, but I used to be heavily into Thomas the Tank Engine, but as of recently, no, I kind of stepped back from it.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Kaede: Anyway, I’m really into the Tales Of series and I wish to be a video game character, be part of the franchise and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: Kaede, what do you write your fan fiction about?

Kaede: It’s the Tales Of series.

Dr. Gwynette: And you’re saying tales of?

Kaede: Yeah, like Tales of Symphonia, Tales of the Abyss.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think it’s okay to leave that in. Don’t you?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah. And it’s called Tales of [inaudible 00:21:35]. It’s on my DeviantArt.

Dr. Gwynette: Okay. Awesome. How can people follow you?

Kaede: Well, they can search me on deviant art. Kaede Enead.

Dr. Gwynette: All right. Can you spell that?

Kaede: K-A-E-D-E-E-N-E-A-D.

Dr. Gwynette: Awesome. That’s great. Yeah. So they can go there and check out your fan fiction?

Kaede: And my other artwork, too.

Dr. Gwynette: Your artwork? What kind of other artwork do you do?

Kaede: I like to do fashion designs and character designs and edits and stuff.

Dr. Gwynette: Oh, that’s great.

Kaede: And I can draw anime. I draw manga.

Dr. Gwynette: That’s awesome. And Scott, you have an artistic side also?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah. Currently it’s in metal work.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah?

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: And what kind of metal work?

Godfather/Scott: Cars.

Dr. Gwynette: So doing cars, but you also can do graphic design, right?

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: And you design the original A&M logo?

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. How did you get interested in art?

Godfather/Scott: I’ve been into art since I was a kid.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: My mom’s always been a little bit creative and it kind of rubbed off on me and I’m little more creative.

Erin: Yeah. Good for you.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Do you want to tell the audience a little bit about the cars that you have working on right now?

Godfather/Scott: Cars I have right now is the ’79 Ford pickup, ’77 Ford pinto cruising wagon, ’53 Henry JNS, and a ’64 and a half Mustang convertible.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow.

Kaede: Wow.

Dr. Gwynette: Where do you go to get these? To buy these cars?

Godfather/Scott: Here, there and everywhere.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah?

Godfather/Scott: The Pinto came from California. The truck came from Socastee, South Carolina. My Mustang originally came out of PA and I found it in New York.

Dr. Gwynette: How do you find the cars?

Godfather/Scott: Driving, knocking on doors, Facebook, Ebay.

Dr. Gwynette: So, you’re driving around, looking online?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. Now, how do you learn so much about the cars that you want to buy?

Godfather/Scott: Usually reading online. I’m pretty well versed on Henry J, which it’s built by the Kaiser Manufacturing Company. It’s now defunct, but because of that reason, the car is impossible to get parts for. So everything on my car is customized.

Dr. Gwynette: Really?

Godfather/Scott: Yes. It’s on a custom chassis, has drive train out of another car.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow.

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: So Henry J is that like a, I just Google Henry J car or truck or?

Godfather/Scott: Henry J Kaiser. He was the actual founder of the Kaiser Motor Company, and he named the car after himself. The funny part is, is this same car was re-badged and sold through Sears as the Allstate. Now, yes you know the name Allstate and, you know it today very well. Guess what you received when you purchased an Allstate?

Dr. Gwynette: What?

Godfather/Scott: Allstate auto insurance.

Dr. Gwynette: Oh, okay.

Godfather/Scott: One year free with the purchase.

Erin: Interesting.

Dr. Gwynette: Very interesting. Yeah. I’m looking around a little bit online. Henry J. What makes that car special?

Godfather/Scott: My car is special because has a few more options than were offered on the Allstate. Most of the all states and most of the early Henry J’s did not have a trunk. They did not have operable windows in the rear at all. Heat was an option. Directionals were an option. Reverse lights were an extreme option.

Dr. Gwynette: So it was like a cheap car?

Godfather/Scott: Very cheap.

Dr. Gwynette: So directionals, do you mean turn signals?

Godfather/Scott: Directionals, turn signals and reverse lights were all optional.

Dr. Gwynette: Yikes. Yeah. Were headlights optional?

Godfather/Scott: No headlights were standard and you would get a standard set of taillights, but they were two little dots like this.

Dr. Gwynette: Wow. That’s funny. So I guess that car wasn’t around too long, huh?

Godfather/Scott: ’51 to ’54 was the build years.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: ’55, the Kaiser company went belly up on manufacturing cars. They didn’t have real good foundation and they were trying to compete with Chevrolet, Ford.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: You also had American motors. You had DeSoto. There was just too many manufacturers.

Dr. Gwynette: Interesting. Well, that’s great. So now you take the metal work that you do. And I mean, you talk about doing parts or doing fenders or bumpers or something? Where do you do the metal works?

Godfather/Scott: Everything. Fend, bumpers, floors, roofs. I cut grind weld.

Dr. Gwynette: It’s amazing. There’s a famous adult with autism named John Robeson, and he has a restoration company where he restores Bentley’s and Rolls Royce’s.

Godfather/Scott: Yep.

Dr. Gwynette: And some other high end cars. And he’s an artist, too.

Godfather/Scott: I follow him on Instagram.

Erin: That’s awesome.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: He does some really interesting work.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. And he posts stuff on Instagram?

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, I’ll have to check him out. So cool. So we’ve, I think today, heard a lot about different levels of autism. And there’s really no set levels. There’s a very fluid way to categorize autism and there’s and people have gifts and challenges, whether you’re on the spectrum or not.

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Dr. Gwynette: And we’ve talked to two artists today. You know, Kaede does graphic arts. She’s also a writer. And, Scott does graphic art. He does metal work. We talked about their passions, too. Video games, cars, some really cool stuff. So, I’m so grateful that you guys have shared your experiences today.

Kaede: Thank you.

Godfather/Scott: Thank you very much.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah. We’ve left a lot of fruit on the vine here so we can come back and do another podcast again soon, right?

Kaede: Yeah.

Godfather/Scott: Yeah.

Kaede: Yeah. I’ll have to do it with my pen pal.

Dr. Gwynette: Yeah, absolutely. You guys want to give a shout out to anybody?

Kaede: Yes.

Dr. Gwynette: Go ahead.

Kaede: Shout out to Tamara L Siuda, my pen pal.

Dr. Gwynette: Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you guys so much for being here and we thank you, our audience, for joining us on the Autism News NetWORK. Please stay tuned for our podcast. We have a YouTube channel. We have an awesome website, the autism News NetWORK dot com. And you can check us out there. We again, appreciate you joining us. And we look forward to speaking with you next time.